Normally,
it wouldn’t be important for Canadian Mennonite Brethren who are interested in LGBTQ+ welcome and inclusion
to pay much attention to Iain Provan and his idea about cuckoos in the
Christian nest.
But since he
was invited to be a feature speaker in October at the national Equip conference put on by the Canadian Conference on Mennonite Brethren Churches, it can be assumed his views are important to Conference leadership.
Not only that; Provan was profiled in the MB Herald, which is the official
organ of the conference. Nothing gets published there without the blessing of
the Conference.
Another
signal of his importance came October 30 when he was interviewed
by British Columbia Mennonite Brethren Conference Minister Rob Thiessen for
the BCMB Pastor to Pastor podcast. The title: A biblical response to the lies of our time.
During
the interview, which ranged over several topics, Provan was asked to share some
of his thinking in the area of inclusion. The quotes below are taken
from that podcast transcript.
Thiessen
asked him about his view on marriage.
He stated
that the scriptures are “very clear that a marriage is between one man and
one woman for life, till death do us part . . . no matter what other people may
say. So that gives us our fundamental orientation point, really, for thinking
about marriage, the place of sex in human relationships, sexual intimacy, and
so on.”
Later, Thiessen asked Provan about inclusion, one of the
“prevailing cuckoos in the nest,” as he put it.
Christians,
said Thiessen, want to be hospitable and welcoming, since that’s what Jesus was
like. But, he asked, is this “the deceptive lie that's jumping into the church
under this framework?”
Provan
responded:
“Well, I
think the fundamental problem here is that once you remove Jesus in the Gospels
from the Old Testament before it and the New Testament after it, you can almost
make Jesus stand for anything that you like. And there's been a long history,
in fact, of doing that, not least in the modern period where the liberal Jesus
turns out to be a Jesus who's much like me.
“No
matter what the search for Jesus may involve, it always turns out that Jesus is
much more conveniently available to me, and not somebody who challenges me or
questions my assumptions and so on.
“And so
you get a situation here on this hospitality issue where somehow, because Jesus
ate with sinners from time to time, somehow that becomes therefore the church
should not have any hard boundaries with regard to the culture roundabout. And
the problem is that when you look at both the Old Testament and the New
Testament, the remainder of the New Testament, that's not what you find at all.
“And
there's a good reason for that. And that is that if you're going to have a
discipleship community holding to a very distinctive countercultural idea of
what it means to be a human being, you're going to have to protect the sheep
from the wolves who want to destroy those ideas and the community that holds
them.”
He went
on:
“You're
going to have to make sure that the boundaries there are actually quite hard.
Not because you don't respect people, not because you don't treat other people
with dignity, but simply because you recognize that they don't believe what you
believe.
“And if
you want to protect your people, particularly your young people, from what they
believe, and get them to continue to believe what you think is true, you're
going to have to take steps to make sure it happens.
“I don't
think there's a more dangerous recent idea in the church than this idea of
hospitality, as it is currently being articulated. I don't think it's a
biblical idea of hospitality. I think it's a postmodern philosophy from France
kind of view of hospitality. And in that view of hospitality, even holding
strong beliefs is held to be oppressive. Right. You can't even articulate
strong beliefs. That is a form of violence in the philosophy of Derrida and the
quasi Christian people who are following Derrida. But it's coming from French
philosophy. It's not coming from the Bible.”
Thiessen
then asked: “How would you describe a more biblical view of hospitality then?
How would a church practice be biblically welcoming, or what would be some of
the markers of that?”
Said
Provan:
“Well, I
think communities of any kind, typically, unless they're very close
communities, typically have ways of welcoming other people into their midst
that don't compromise their fundamental integrity. So, for example, I wouldn't
be having and I don't think the Bible permits us to have people inside the
discipleship community who are not actually walking as disciples, because that
undermines the whole viability of the enterprise.
“But does
that mean that we can't invite people to church services? Does it mean that we
can't invite people to lunch? Does it mean that we can't work with them? No, it
doesn't mean any of those things. So having a hospitable posture in terms of
friendliness and welcoming and, you know, and being a human being together,
that's all fine and good and proper and all of that. But when you get confused
about which level of thing you're dealing with, that's when the problems arise.
“And
there's something of a cry now, a demand now, that the church ought to be
inclusive in a way that actually in any community, if you were to adopt that
same view, would destroy the very nature of the community.”
“It's
always dangerous giving other examples, because they can sound trivial. So let
me just take a very foolish example in a way, a silly example. If I'm a member
of a golf club and I have somebody wanting to join my golf club on the basis of
inclusion and diversity, who wants to play rugby on my putting greens, likely,
I don't imagine there's any golf club in the world that would allow that to
happen. Why? Because the person is asking for something that destroys the
fundamental point of the community they're demanding to join. It's no
different, really, by analogy, when people with very different views of what it
means to be a human person want to become core members of our Christian
discipleship community.”
Replied
Thiessen: “Yeah,
that's good. And it reminds the pastors listening of their role of protecting
the flock that's a serious command that we're accountable for as shepherds with
the church.”
Said
Provan:
“Well, I
would say that's a primary command. I shake in my boots when I hear people
being casual about this issue. There's so much about protecting the sheep,
looking after the sheep and all that. And I think that's our primary duty as
church leaders. Our primary duty lies not in the direction of the culture at
large. I would suggest our primary duty is to make sure the church remains the
church, and therefore able then to preach the gospel to the culture to be salt
and light. If there's nothing there in the first place to go and do those
tasks, the tasks can't be done. So if we get confused about this, we not only
risk destroying the church, we also risk destroying the witness of the church
in the world.”
You can listen to the whole podcast and read the transcript
here.
Read some reflections on Provan's presentation at Equip here.